tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post5466653564144458393..comments2023-11-03T11:06:58.467-04:00Comments on the MOORE abundant life: Youth Ministry Vision Casting *bump*TerryKMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15001371314337155315noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-58268401941354646982008-01-31T21:11:00.000-05:002008-01-31T21:11:00.000-05:00That's why we killed off any committees in our chu...That's why we killed off any committees in our church years ago. Committees sit around and talk about what should be done.<BR/><BR/>We replaced them with teams that act.Rick Lawrensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04472532417528025895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-60656602636084374502008-01-31T11:20:00.000-05:002008-01-31T11:20:00.000-05:00"Starting programs without a vision is putting the..."Starting programs without a vision is putting the cart before the horse." (Rick)<BR/><BR/>I agree - that's why I mentioned developing a vision is part of the process also. The main fear is the church becoming a 'talking circle' and not a place where we enact the ideas we develop - mainly because church ministry focuses too much on confession via words and not confession via actions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-22476734989342793572008-01-30T23:17:00.000-05:002008-01-30T23:17:00.000-05:00See my questions got you two to think!I agree that...See my questions got you two to think!<BR/><BR/>I agree that the vision must be the same.<BR/><BR/>I hear the frustration stories from youth pastors who are in a church where there is no vision. They attempt to cast vision to the students. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't, mainly because the adults "don't get it", or haven't bought into the vision.Andy Lawrensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13906649253434836772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-41685014040458036152008-01-30T15:33:00.000-05:002008-01-30T15:33:00.000-05:00The church and the youth ministry must share its v...The church and the youth ministry must share its vision otherwise there will be devision, like Rick said.<BR/><BR/>But. . .I do think it is very possible for ministries in a church to take the church's vision and turn it into their own. A little rewording and finding applying the vision in different ways are okay.<BR/><BR/>An example of this is Rick Warren and Doug Fields (Senior Pastor and Youth Pastor of Saddleback Church). <BR/><BR/>Rick W.'s purpose statement of the vision for the church is Magnification, Ministry, Missions, Membership, and Mature. But Doug F.'s purpose statement for the high school youth is Honor, Discover, Reach, Connect, and Grow. Doug also explains the concepts of the purpose in different ways. You can tell that Doug has taken the church vision and turned into his own for the youth ministry.TerryKMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15001371314337155315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-87835631393686925562008-01-30T13:40:00.000-05:002008-01-30T13:40:00.000-05:00oops..."Here's OUR vision".oops...<BR/>"Here's OUR vision".Rick Lawrensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04472532417528025895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-68149584914494492082008-01-30T13:39:00.000-05:002008-01-30T13:39:00.000-05:00Commenting on what societyvs said...Starting progr...Commenting on what societyvs said...<BR/><BR/>Starting programs without a vision is putting the cart before the horse. "Do something", yes. But know why you're doing them and where you hope they'll take you before. Otherwise you're likely to "do something" counterproductive or even wrong.<BR/><BR/>A scriptural parallel comes from James' words: Be doers of the Word. The Word is the "vision" and the "doing" follows.<BR/><BR/>And if a church says "Here's are vision" but is sitting around doing nothing there vision isn't worth the paper on which it's written.Rick Lawrensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04472532417528025895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-64118084459140757022008-01-30T13:34:00.000-05:002008-01-30T13:34:00.000-05:00If the church is indeed one body, why shouldn't th...If the church is indeed one body, why shouldn't the vision be the same? Sure, the youth ministry would target youth, the worship ministry target worshippers, etc., but if you've got different visions within the same church don't you have a type of division?<BR/><BR/>And if that division grows, eventually there is going to be a showdown. And we wonder why youth ministers don't usually last 2 years in a church.<BR/><BR/>Not saying it's their fault, but there has to be a continuity through the church's various ministries. We all have to be on the same page, working toward the same goals.<BR/><BR/>A house divided against itself cannot stand.Rick Lawrensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04472532417528025895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-20563751965699809682008-01-29T23:17:00.000-05:002008-01-29T23:17:00.000-05:00May I also add this question:Should the youth mini...May I also add this question:<BR/><BR/>Should the youth ministry's vision be the same vision for the church?Andy Lawrensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13906649253434836772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-55201425604304356052008-01-29T23:15:00.000-05:002008-01-29T23:15:00.000-05:00I know that I personally would not get involved in...I know that I personally would not get involved in a church that didn't have their purpose clearly stated and their vision of how they would get there.<BR/><BR/>I think you can have programs as societyvs has stated but I'm not going to join a program if I don't know the purpose and can't see that the leader has vision for the direction it should go.<BR/><BR/>Churches that are spinning their wheels are making a rut and we all know that a rut is just a grave open at both ends.<BR/><BR/>Great question: Where does the church get its vision?Andy Lawrensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13906649253434836772noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-15006767955592231632008-01-04T16:56:00.000-05:002008-01-04T16:56:00.000-05:00"How do we install such a passion in the members o..."How do we install such a passion in the members of our church that they get out of the stands, stop being spectators, and become active members of the church? It begins with visionary leadership." (Terry)<BR/><BR/>If you want to install passion - words will not quite do the trick my good man - even if a vision is good - it needs substance. <BR/><BR/>I have toyed with this idea for some time and I think the best path to getting people involved is simple - do something. Start a ministry for young mothers, do work with the elderly, start a soup kitchen, do a clothing exchange program, start a grocery program for people in need, etc. Start a bunch of programs that seek to live out the idea 'do unto others what you would like done unto you' and I will bet that many more people get involved - why? They donate, they participate, and they see the reward. Nothing hard about that. <BR/><BR/>Don't get me wrong a vision is nice and needed - but what good is a vision and mere rhetoric if it's never put into some serious action (as a community of people)?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-10131054042498707822007-12-28T11:50:00.000-05:002007-12-28T11:50:00.000-05:00It's pretty simple.Without purpose you don't have ...It's pretty simple.<BR/>Without purpose you don't have a reason for being.<BR/>Without vision you don't know how to get there even if you have a purpose.Rick Lawrensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04472532417528025895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-78975293861132145252007-12-27T20:56:00.000-05:002007-12-27T20:56:00.000-05:00A question for you. . .I feel that God has been te...A question for you. . .<BR/><BR/>I feel that God has been telling me (over and over) that purpose and vision are everything in ministry otherwise we're much like chaff being blown wherever the wind takes us; that without vision and purpose the best you can hope for in a ministry is to maintain but you're really not going to get anywhere.<BR/><BR/>Has this been your experience?<BR/><BR/>Btw, excellent question to cover, "where does the church get its vision?"TerryKMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15001371314337155315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-916833960238206414.post-67971609183305116972007-12-27T18:19:00.000-05:002007-12-27T18:19:00.000-05:00I've learned that casting vision is one of the mos...I've learned that casting vision is one of the most vital tasks I have in the church as lead pastor. <BR/><BR/>And you don't just speak it once. It has to be repeated over and again. So I try in every sermon, even if I'm not doing a series on our vision, to bring in at least one visionary statement. <BR/><BR/>The big issue is that most churches couldn't tell you what God's vision is for them in specifics. So they spin their wheels doing what they've always done.<BR/><BR/>So please address this: Where does the church get its vision?Rick Lawrensonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04472532417528025895noreply@blogger.com